The Badass CEO
The Badass CEO
EP 97: Leaving The Corporate World to Become a Successful Entrepreneur with Tiny Tags Founder Melissa Clayton
Creating a meaningful business that celebrates mothers across the country is the exact mission Melissa Clayton set out to achieve when she left corporate America and started Tiny Tags. Tiny Tags is an online jewelry store that designs and creates fine, personalized jewelry. Clayton left her secure CPA job in order to pursue entrepreneurship and has now turned her dreams into a multimillion-dollar business.
Tune in to learn about her jump from CPA to female founder, why strategic retail partnerships are crucial for sustained growth, and her advice for female entrepreneurs starting out!
Mimi MacLean:
Welcome to The Badass CEO podcast, this is Mimi MacLean. I'm a mom of five, entrepreneur, Columbia business school grad, CPA, and angel investor. I'm here to share with you my passion for entrepreneurship. Throughout my career, I have met many incredible people who have started businesses, disrupted industries, persevered, and turned on opportunity into success. Each episode, we will discuss what it takes to become and continue to be a badass CEO, directly from the entrepreneurs who have made it happen. If you're new in your career, dreaming about starting your own business, or already an entrepreneur, The Badass CEO podcast is for you. I want to give you the drive and tools needed to succeed in following your dreams.
Mimi MacLean:
Hi. Welcome back to The Badass CEO. This is your host, Mimi MacLean. Today, we have on Melissa Clayton from Tiny Tags. This is a great podcast to listen to if you are a mom looking to start a business while you're at home, after you've left your corporate job and wanting a little bit more. She has turned her business into a multimillion dollar business, just from being home and working on a retail startup. Melissa is the CEO and founder of Tiny Tags, an online jewelry store that designs and creates fine personalized jewelry for mothers. She's a former CPA who is passionate about entrepreneurship and sharing the lessons that she has learned along the way with other women. She's been as semi-finalist in the EMY Entrepreneur of the Year in 2018. She's a sought after speaker on entrepreneurship. She's been featured on NBC Today Show, NBC Boston, New York PIX11. She's also been interviewed by Entrepreneur magazine and many more.
Mimi MacLean:
Thank you for tuning in today. Please subscribe so that way you get notifications on our next podcast, which come out every Thursday. In addition, hop on over to thebadassceo.com to sign up for our newsletter, so that you'll be also notified of our weekly blogs and weekly podcasts.
Mimi MacLean:
Melissa, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. I'm excited to learn about Tiny Tags and how you built your company and all the press that you've received from it. I love your product. Anybody who hasn't checked out Tiny Tags, you should do so online. Tell me your journey of how you went from CPA, which we both have mutually the same experience, to becoming an entrepreneur and starting your own business.
Melissa Clayton:
Sure. Well first, thanks for having me. Like a lot of entrepreneurs, I think I grew up with a father that was an entrepreneur. It definitely, I think, was in my blood. Did the CPA route, really because I was just sort of trying to figure out what am I going to do and kind of fell into it. I loved business and I knew that accounting was the language of business. I loved learning accounting, did not love being a CPA, being behind a computer crunching numbers all day.
Mimi MacLean:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I can relate.
Melissa Clayton:
Always really knew that my strength was in connecting with people. When I wound up leaving corporate America, is when I had my first son. Never thought in a million years, I would leave to be a stay-at-home mom. It was during that time period after I had my son, where I was like just sort of that new bubbly mom and really wanting something to wear with his name on it and was still looking for that outlet. I knew I wasn't going to do the traditional stay at home mom route. I knew I wanted to start something so I was like, "Well, I'm going to try to figure out how to make this." That was really how it all started.
Mimi MacLean:
At the time, when was there anything else out there? I mean, I feel like you see a lot of companies that are doing that now. Were you one of the first ones or were you just like, "I don't like what they're doing?" What was the market looking like at the time?
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah, I think there was one or two other people. I mean Etsy was not even a thing yet.
Mimi MacLean:
Yeah.
Melissa Clayton:
It was really, a long time ago.
Mimi MacLean:
What year is that?
Melissa Clayton:
This way? I mean, my middle son is 15, and I remember I was pregnant with him the first necklace I made.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh wow. Okay. I see that you won the 2018 Ernst & Young Award.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah.
Mimi MacLean:
That's a lot. Do they typically take more established companies that have been around for a while? What was the impetus to winning that?
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah, I think that was just really sharing my story. I think they like to show all different stages of a company. What I think I like sharing my journey, is that it has been a little bit of a slow growth.
Mimi MacLean:
Yeah.
Melissa Clayton:
It's not something that has always been like, I didn't start this as a means to an end. I started it because I was wanting to do something and wanted this creative outlet. It was really the reaction that I was getting when I was sending them to my friends and really seeing, "Okay, this could be something," that really was what fueled it. I can remember laying in bed with my husband saying, "Could you imagine if I could do $200 a day, what that would do to our lives and how that would change our life." At the time, I was trying to do $200 a week to pay for the groceries and maybe at date night. It's been quite a journey, and now my husband works for Tiny Tags.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh wow. So wait, in the beginning, were you actually making them yourself or did you find somebody to help make them?
Melissa Clayton:
No. I love telling this story because what people say, "What's the advice," I always say, "Talk to everyone you know, because everyone knows something you don't." I was like, "Okay, I'm going to try to figure out how to make jewelry." Kind of Googled. And I don't even think Google was really a thing then. It was really hard to find. I found a true wholesale jewelry company. I ordered the stamp set, started to make it and gave up, threw it in a closet.
Mimi MacLean:
It's a lot of work.
Melissa Clayton:
Took a plane ride, sat next to a woman, and started chitchatting with her. She was in true jewelry design school. I said, "I've been trying to make this necklace, like how do I blacken the letters?" She gave me her business card. She, we were living out on the west coast at the time and she said, "Come into my store in San Francisco and I'll give you everything you need." That is truly how I got back into it. I absolutely would've not, if I did not sit next to her on the plane.
Mimi MacLean:
So you started then making them again yourself, instead of finding somebody?
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah. I made them myself for quite a few years. Then when we moved back to new England, that is when my oldest started kindergarten and making jewelry was not what I loved. I loved the connection with the customers. I loved the creativity, but I didn't like making them. That's when we started to outsource. Luckily for me, Mass. and Rhode Island is where there's a massive history of jewelry making. We found manufacturing partners that were 45 minutes from our house, that had been in business since 1892, if you can believe that. It was great.
Mimi MacLean:
Wow. I can imagine in the beginning, because I used to have a monogramming business so it's kind of the similar, where you started out by going to these spring craft shows or Christmas holiday fairs and that's how you got your name out?
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah. We would do baby shows. We would go to these biggest baby showers. I would do a couple of arts and crafts locally, but yeah, it was really a lot of word of mouth.
Mimi MacLean:
Right. Once you give, that's what I did, I would do a couple holiday shows or people would give it as a gift and then you would get the repeat customers and grow from there.
Melissa Clayton:
Yep.
Mimi MacLean:
I see that you have a huge internet following. Tell me the journey about that and how you went about getting that large of an audience.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah. The business that people see now and what Tiny Tags is today, really has probably been the last like seven to eight years. My husband quit his job five years ago and joined, and that was a huge game changer, as far as me being able to really focus on the business and the brand. That really has just been over time. I think working with certain influencers, I feel like that has changed a lot in the last few years, but in the beginning, I think we got a lot of eyeballs and a lot of people got to know us through working with influencers and really just good old fashioned hustle, to be honest. We got into People magazine in 2015, that was a big year for us, because I DMed the editor and I wanted to make her necklace. She was like, "Sure," and then she put us right smack in the middle of the Mother's Day gift guide for People magazine.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh, that had to be huge.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah, it was a lot of DMing editors, sending product, telling them our story, what we were trying to do. Our product really was different than everything out there. Around that time, Etsy was getting bigger. There was a lot more competition. We luckily had gone to laser engraving and that's something that even today, we're really trying to educate our consumer. We do laser engraving, which is a very labor intensive, very sophisticated way to personalize jewelry, where a laser comes down, a beam of light, versus scratching the name. Scratching the name is actually quick and easy, and using a laser takes a lot more time.
Mimi MacLean:
Yeah. There's a laser, what's the benefit of that? It looks better or last longer?
Melissa Clayton:
There's two things. One, the metal's not cut so it's smooth. It gives this very fine elegant finish. We also can do back and graving, which for me, is the warm and fuzzy part of this. We all love wearing our kids' names, but it's when the dad puts on the back their wedding song, a personal quote that they say to one another. We'll have moms that have adopted children, they'll put, they call it the gotcha date on the back. We had a mom do her kids' birth weights and they were two pounds. I remember just pausing because we've done a lot of situations where moms have lost children and we didn't know. Then I found the customer and she DMed me and she's like, "They're thriving. They're six month old now." I'm like, "Oh my gosh, these babies were two pounds." The back engraving is really this amazing feature, where you can really make something personal to the person you're giving it to.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh, that's great. So wait, going back to your PR, because you have also gotten some great press and your Instagram, because I feel like that's a lot of money that people, especially startups, can spend between PR and trying to get influencers to help build their audience. I know it's changed a lot, the landscape, from when you originally did it, especially for influencers.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah.
Mimi MacLean:
Any lessons that you've learned as far as spending, outlaying money for PR, and for influencers for startup?
Melissa Clayton:
Yes. One, if I send anybody anything, I ask for a condition if I'm going to send it. I do not blindly send product anymore. I say, "If you love it, will you do X, Y, and Z by X date?" Putting a timeframe on there, is, I think, really important because they wind up getting lost I like to move things off of DM and into an email so it feels a little bit more contractual. I love jumping on a Zoom. I'm a big fan of taking it off this kind of space of the internet and making it much more personal, so they know that there's a face behind that brand, I think is really important.
Melissa Clayton:
A lot of these influencers are receiving so much product, that you can get lost. Working with smaller influencers, I think, we have gotten really selective because one, we get asked a lot and we want someone. We don't want to one and done, we know who a Tiny Tag's mom is and we want it to be that piece that she wears every day. She might layer it with other big statement pieces, but we know even if you don't see it, she has it on because it means something to her. I think it's important to really qualify them.
Mimi MacLean:
Do you use like a link share or something like that?
Melissa Clayton:
We do affiliate marketing. We have not done a great job at that. It's something that we actually talked about, is really growing that this year.
Mimi MacLean:
What about your press, like of how you've got into, I was looking at your website. You've gotten onto NBC Today Show, Boston, and then you mentioned People. Was that all you guys did it on your own hustle, or did you guys hire a PR?
Melissa Clayton:
I'll tell you one of another great talk to everybody. I got onto Fox News on Small Business Saturday in 2017, right? It was Saturday morning, Small Business Saturday, and that only happened because I took a train ride going from San Diego to LA and I was going to, I think it was Mom 2.0 Summit. I was on the platform. I could tell this other woman was going also to the same conference. I could just tell she was a mom away from her kids. I really thought I was like, "Am I going to sit next to her and get to know her? Am I going to sit on my phone for two hours?" I was like, "Missy, you didn't come here to be on phone." I sat next to her, got to know her, exchanged info, she was great. Her name is Amanda. She emailed me three months later and said, "My PR woman is looking for a small business to be on Fox News. Okay I give her your info?" I was like, "Sure."
Melissa Clayton:
I then went on Fox News and we did $65,000 that day because I sat next to someone on the train. Most of those things have been hustle and asking people. We have a PR firm now because the PR firm we have now, this is a big investment we're doing this year, is because we want more human interest stories. We want to tell more of our community story and how Tiny Tags has been part of that story. My advice is if you're going to hire PR firm, because it is, I think PR, most people know it's the long game. It's not just one email. It's the follow up, is make sure you have the bandwidth to manage them. That's with any consultants. We have lost a lot of money hiring digital marketing consultants and not managing them, not knowing one that we have the assets to give them so they can do their job. I think it's always important to make sure you know how to manage any relationship, especially consultants.
Mimi MacLean:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's so true. What lessons have you learned or lesson have you learned or maybe you wish you knew before you get started that you know now?
Melissa Clayton:
There is no silver bullet. One thing I've been really passionate about in the last few years, is sharing how slow my journey has been, right? We are not a $20 million company. We're not a $10 million company. I think people sometimes think we're a lot bigger than we are. This has never been a means to an end for me. I was actually sitting on Sunday and all the parents around me were like, "Oh, tomorrow's Monday," and I'm like, "I'm psyched for Monday. I love going to work." I love what I do and it's never been a means to an end.
Melissa Clayton:
I think a lot of the stories we hear in the press, which we all love reading, is that story of, "had an idea, raised money, and sold it for millions and walked off into the sunset." I think there's an audience and I think there's a lot of small business owners that want to hear that middle story of, "Yeah, I've had the business for 10, 15 years and the last five years, we've had a lot of great things happen. We're starting to see a little bit of that hockey stick, but it has not been an overnight success."
Melissa Clayton:
Knowing that there is no real silver bullet. I remember listening to aden+anais' story and for her, it was a silver bullet when Catherine came out, having the prince wrapped in her blanket, right? Yeah, you see those stories, but there's a huge audience that that does not happen for. I spoke with the CEO of Pura Vida. I had reached out to him and he said, "You got to think of it as like a meatloaf, right? It's not just one thing. It's not just digital marketing. It's not just working with influencers. You have to do it all now because there's so many touch points and there is no silver bullet."
Mimi MacLean:
No, it's true because I was watching Shark Tank the other day and I forgot what the business was, but the woman was looking for funding and Mr. Wonderful was like, "I'm not going to invest and it's not because I don't like the idea or I don't think you're worthy of it, it's because just some businesses aren't meant to be big businesses, aren't meant to have capital infused. They're meant for, like most business in the United States, are these mom and pop sustainable cash producing businesses that you don't need to have it be the next unicorn." It was when he said that I was like, "He's right." You don't have to, it's good to just keep it smaller like that and grow it and keep it as a business that you want in your family.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have three boys, so I'm not quite sure if anybody wants to take it over someday. I read the one book about, Built to Sell. I never want to think and have my ego think that this business could last 40 years necessarily. We do think about what is the exit strategy? What does it look like in 10 years? I am very much the face of Tiny Tags, but how do we make sure that I am not Tiny Tags, that it's sustainable without me? What does that look like? We definitely are thinking, someone asked me, "What's the big dream?" I'm like, "I want every mom to have a child and it's like, do you have your Tiny Tags, and people know what that is."
Melissa Clayton:
I think we stand for something. We're not just this cute little jewelry with your kid's name on it. Our brand is so much more than that. It is about, we've been talking so much about, our tagline was always, "Celebrate your most precious gift." I've learned over the years that to really celebrate your child, you first have to celebrate you, love yourself, connect to yourself, know what you're bringing into your motherhood journey, the baggage you bring from your own childhood, and learn from that so you don't just repeat it. We've gotten so much more involved and deeper in our relationship with our consumers, with our customers, our community, that I never could have predicted 15 years ago. This is the part that actually is more fulfilling than ever, is hearing from our customers. I got to a DM from a mom and I sent her a book actually. I'm like, "I can't believe the relationship I have with our customers-
Mimi MacLean:
That's amazing.
Melissa Clayton:
... because of social media." I'm really excited to finally, hopefully get back out into the world and do events and connect with people in person because you just can't beat that.
Mimi MacLean:
Are you strictly B2C or do you work with retail as well?
Melissa Clayton:
We launched in Nordstrom online last year. We just launched two weeks ago in Pottery Barn Kids.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh wow.
Melissa Clayton:
We're really excited about that partnership. We are in Maisonette and we're also in A Pea in the Pod, hopefully in the next two weeks. That's been something really the last 18 months, this sort of third party distribution that we now can handle internally. We know who we are, we know who we want to work with. Yeah. We've strictly have been B2C, up until really last year.
Mimi MacLean:
Well, your margins, because I find a lot of time companies that go B2C don't have the margins built in to then transfer and then start going B2B.
Melissa Clayton:
You are absolutely correct. What we're trying to do to overcome that, is we want to create custom lines for those third parties, right? We really want Pottery Barn. We want to come up with Tiny Tags for Pottery Barn, so we are building into that price structure that we can support the third party because. Right now with Nordstrom, it's challenging. It's more of a marketing brand awareness, than it is a money maker, so absolutely. That's one thing I talk about, I've read a book, The Psychology of Pricing, and I have said that. "If you think you might go wholesale, you need to make sure that your pricing can support that, or if you find certain lines that you only do wholesale with."
Mimi MacLean:
Yeah. I worked at Bloomingdale's for a little while in the buying department and a lot of startups that are consumer product driven, are so excited when they get into retail, into department stores, but they don't realize, really you're not making money by the time. It is like a marketing play and a brand awareness play, because by the time you sell there and then they always want all these mark backs or sometimes they want you to take it back if it doesn't sell or they want money for advertising, they just know how to play the game a little bit better than the smaller startups, right? I always try to tell companies that I talk to like, "Just know that if you're going into any of these department stores, you'll be happy to just break even at that point."
Melissa Clayton:
Right. You also don't own the relationship with the customer. When we talk about who would want to buy Tiny Tags, who would really want to invest in Tiny Tags in 10 years, if we don't own that relationship, if we come out with a new product line and we can't communicate directly with them, that to me is not as attractive. I also think, I've talked to plenty of people where Nordstrom drops you and that's 40% of your business and nevermind the inventory part about it. Luckily, most of our stuff is all custom made. From a cashflow and inventory, we're very fortunate that our manufacturers in Rhode Island carry the inventory. We're not having to buy sheets of 14 karat gold and all that.
Mimi MacLean:
That's great. Now, have you been able to kind of keep most of your team outsourced, or did you have to start bringing in a team in house?
Melissa Clayton:
A little bit of both. Right at the beginning 2020, the beginning of COVID, we hired our first real hire. Her name is Celine, she is our Director of Marketing. She's up in Canada. That was when I had been so burn by the digital marketing firm I hired. Every answer was, "Buy more Facebook ads, buy more Facebook ads." I had it, we fired them, and I said, "We have to hire someone internally that can manage this." That was a huge step for us because it's a real salary. It's not your friend down the street. It's a 1099 employee, but that was a game changer for us. That has really driven our businesses a lot, having Celine on board.
Mimi MacLean:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Melissa Clayton:
We just hired our first eCommerce manager. Being an econ brand and not having econ manager has been crazy to me, but again, it was easier to outsource technology and the IT, than bring it in house. She's starting, actually on Monday, and we're really excited about that.
Mimi MacLean:
Oh, that's great. That's awesome.
Melissa Clayton:
We've always done a mix.
Mimi MacLean:
Yep. Okay. I don't know if you know this, but only 1.7% of women ever reached that seven figure number, that million dollars in sales? Do you see any characteristics or reasons what would make somebody reach that and others not?
Melissa Clayton:
I can really speak to my experience and I love that you're talking numbers because that's been something that's really passionate to me. I love going to a lot of women networking groups and the biggest challenge I find in women networking groups, is no one's talking revenue. You'll have someone stand up there and tell, give advice, and share their journey, but then they don't say, "Okay, this is how I was funded. This is how much money I'm making. This is my revenue." I think that it's really important if you're going to be a person that you've done something right and that people should take your advice, and you're not going to share that information. If your family is funding your business because you're well off, that's awesome, but that's part of your story. That has to be, I think, disclosed personally if you're going to be giving advice.
Melissa Clayton:
I think for me, when we went from 450 to a million, I don't think it was an accident that year that I had joined EO, which is Entrepreneurs Organization. They have a fantastic accelerator program. In order to be an EO member, you have to have a million revenue, but they have an accelerator program where if you have at least 250 in revenue trying to get to a million, and EO's whole messaging is about working on your business, not in your business. I think for me, that was really critical. I don't think it was an accident that was the year my husband joined so I was more focused. I think I also, if I had to guess, I think that knowing, and again, I think this all comes in that takes time, right? Part of EO is understanding your core values, your branding.
Melissa Clayton:
We are really focused, right? When Mother's Day is over, we don't switch to marketing to brides and graduates and Father's Day. I used to do that. I had everyone tell me, "You don't have a Father's Day gift? I'm like, "No, we don't." I listened to a book called Brand Warfare, and it was really about how to build a brand and to be specific and be focused and to also look internally at what you cared about. I knew I cared about talking to moms. I wanted to talk about motherhood and children. That is when we said, "You know what? We are only making jewelry geared towards moms." I think having that very singular voice and that strong voice, made running the business easier. I mean, I think also, as far as getting to a million, I had a husband that quit his job. That was really risky.
Melissa Clayton:
For women, I think it's always hard because if you are a mother and you have children, it is always this balance. There's not enough women CEOs out there. The reality is, I think a lot of women are trying to balance it all. I love that quote of like, "You can have it all, but not at the same time." That was me. I left corporate America. If I had wanted to stay on that path, I took seven years off essentially, and that matters when you're climbing that ladder. I think it's challenging wanting to have children and not work a 70 hour work week.
Mimi MacLean:
It's hard because you can't focus on everything-
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah.
Mimi MacLean:
... and do it well. Okay. This has been amazing. Is there anything you would like to end on? Any kind of advice or thoughts?
Melissa Clayton:
I think getting mentors, that's one thing I've been really, I have DMed some really big people. I have asked really big people to give me 15 minutes of their time. I really do look at everyone knowing something that I don't and asking for help. If I have DMed, like when I talked to the CEO of Pura Vida, I just said, "Can I just have 15 minutes of your time? I'd love to know your thoughts on digital marketing, what's worked for you, what hasn't worked for you." Be really specific with your asks, but then also having mentors, finding someone that could do a six month mentorship and really define what the ask is. I just think women have to support each other. I have always said, if anybody wants to email me, I give out my phone number. I love talking about business and small businesses. For me, it's been such a rewarding experience. It kind of, little bit, feels like you can control your own destiny. Finding someone that can help you and be a mentor, I think is really good advice.
Mimi MacLean:
Melissa, thank you so much. This has been amazing. For anybody who's looking, it's tinytags.com and also you can follow her on Instagram. She's got a big following there as well. I wish you the best luck and Mother's Day is right around the corner for anybody who is listening and has a mother-
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah.
Mimi MacLean:
... and is not a mother, so it might not be on their mind.
Melissa Clayton:
But if you have a grandmother, we have lots of moms out there.
Mimi MacLean:
Yes, no, I'm thinking we know that it's Mother's Day for our mothers.
Melissa Clayton:
Yeah.
Mimi MacLean:
If it's like the daughter is listening right now-
Melissa Clayton:
Right.
Mimi MacLean:
... it's Mother's Day, it's coming up. Anyway, thank you so much and best luck to you.
Melissa Clayton:
Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
Mimi MacLean:
Thank you for joining us on The Badass CEO. To get your copy of the top 10 tips every entrepreneur should know, go to the badassceo.com/tips. Also, please leave a review as it helps others find us. If you have any ideas or suggestions, I would love to hear them. Email me at Mimi@thebadassceo.com. See you next week and thank you for listening.